Re: ?? on a "Movie" gun

[dreamofpeace@xxxxxxxx]

        A quick correction: the U. S. did sign and is bound by the 1949
Geneva Conventions.  What the U.S. didn't sign was the 1977 "update" to
the conventions (for various nefarious reasons I won't get into right
now), but that doesn't change its obligation to the earlier treaty, which
is still in force.  Best Wishes, Manu

On 28 Mar 2002 17:28:49 -0600 "Robert J. Hansen" <rjhansen@inav.net>
writes:
> > The only reason I've ever heard for cancellation of the program was 
> "it's
> > too deadly".  Ahem, wasn't that the point?  Perhaps the next 
> version should
> > come with a vase full of plastic flowers, ala the VW New Beetle.
> 
> "Too deadly" is a valid concern; remember, the Geneva Conventions
> (ostensibly) exist to limit fatalities.  Shotguns are actually 
> banned
> weapons under the Geneva Conventions, and while some militaries 
> (U.S.,
> among others) get away with using shotguns on battlefields, 
> fully-auto
> shotguns might be too flagrant a violation.
> 
> The US adheres to Geneva voluntarily and at-will; we never signed 
> it, so
> according to US policy, we can use shotguns if we damn well want to. 
>  In
> a (rare) bow of the head to international will, though, the US tends 
> to
> follow Geneva pretty closely.
> 
> Other problems with autoshots:
> 
> * Extremely limited range.  An M4 can engage to 300m effectively, 
> and an
> M-16A2 out to 500m.  Shotguns are limited to 100m or less, mostly.
> 
> * Extremely bulky ammo.  25 shotgun shells takes up more space than 
> 100
> rounds of 5.56mm.
> 
> * Extremely heavy ammo.  The ammo isn't just bulky, it's frickin'
> *heavy*.
> 
> * Extremely unwieldy magazines.  Box magazines are limited to 10
> rounds--I've never heard of a shotgun box holding more.  Even in
> controlled autofire, that's three bursts.  Drum magazines typically 
> hold
> 20-25 rounds, but they are monstrously big and awkward.
> 
> * Extremely heavy.  A GPMG is tolerable for its weight, because you 
> can
> use a GPMG out to 500m+, you can engage light vehicles, you can 
> shoot
> down low-flying aircraft, you can turn enemy troops into ground 
> beef. 
> It's extremely versatile.  An autoshot is a tremendously 
> specialized
> weapon; you aren't going to shoot down aircraft with it, engage
> vehicles, etc.  It's a special-purpose weapon, and oh boy, is it
> *heavy*.
> 
> * Recoil.  During the HK-CAWS trials, one Special Forces trooper 
> broke
> his collarbone in a combination of (a) bad firing position and (b)
> high-velocity all-brass 12g.  Given how often bad firing positions
> happen on the battlefield, it's just not practical to use more than
> 2.75-inch 12g.
> 
> ... Short version: autoshots are a nifty idea, but if I was a 
> trooper, I
> sure wouldn't want to carry one around.  Give me an M4 or MP5 
> instead.
> 
> 
> 
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